some of the memories that i have of visiting my grandpa & grandma's
house were of the childhood spankings that were sometimes unavoidable
by my dad. grandpa was a gentle man, at least toward us as he was well
up in age by the time of my collective memories. grandma was as nice as
any grandma could ever be, and one or the other would always take up
for us and say "Now Charlie, you shouldn't hit those babies". sometimes
he would listen, but sometimes he would just say that we were
his kids, and if we needed a whipping, he would give
us one. and one we got. over, and over, and over again until we were
just too big anymore. many whippings were born of just plain anger, and
the receiving end of one was not a good place to be.
i will not go any further into how this affected us psychologically,
all of us in different ways, but it definitely had an effect on our
personalities. it's perhaps one of the biggest reasons that i chose not
to whip my children. so much for the violence begets violence theory,
which usually does hold true.
i also recall a particular incident in which i probably needed some
sort of behavior adjustment and didn't get it;...i was standing in
front of the television program of something that my uncle, my dad's youngest
brother, really wanted to watch( i wanted to watch something else) and
no matter how much he pleaded, i wouldn't get out of the way, so he
asked grandma to make me move. my dad, being the short tempered sort
that he always was, overheard and chased his own brother out of the
house with a hammer and down the street. it's a good thing he could run
faster. later, after things calmed down, we all had to load up in the
car and go looking for him, i felt so bad for him because of my
mischievousness, that i still haven't forgotten it. i loved my grandpa
and grandma, they were such a positive influence on our lowly lives.
moral of this story? don't hit your babies, it hurts more than you will ever know, and you will learn to regret it in the end.
My dad used to give me whippings with his belt...but only when I did something really bad...and/or when I lied to him. The first one I can actually remember the reason for was this: My dad and Debbie were dating? I was still pretty little...guessing 6 or 7 in age? and My dad stayed the night with my mom Pat. He told me not to tell Debbie. I did, and boy was she mad! Didn't know why back then...haha, but do now. Dad was pretty mad at me too.
Second one that comes to mind is when I lit the drawer full of bills on fire in his desk at our house on Ebb St. I dropped a match into the drawer full of paperwork and it went up like wildfire...I ran to the bathroom and got a bucket full of water and doused it, but too late...the room was full of smoke. So being a boy of 7 or so, I closed the door and ran out to play. Dad was asleep on the couch, as was the custom for shift-workers. He smelled the smoke and found the problem...then found me. That was a well-deserved spanking.
I don't think I've been negatively affected by my spankings...not that I got them every day or anything. I do think the threat made me a better liar and a sneak! I just didn't get caught as much as I grew up.
Dad was always remorseful about giving them though. I never felt unloved because of it. I don't "whip" my kids either, but a smack on the bottom with the hand does come every now and again for not listening to the first few verbal warnings. It works.
Some people will argue the need for physical spankings versus verbal or time out, but I think it all boils down to what gets through to a particular kid. Some just get crushed if you look at them the wrong way...some don't listen at all, until they get a spanking.
I remember actually kindof fondly the time Gma gave me and Pete and Ben a switching because we drowned some cats around their house. I remember her telling us to go pick out our own switch too...and not to bring back one that would snap when she used it on us or she'd send us out for another one and start all over. Ahh...the memories...
I remember her telling us to go pick out our own switch too...and not to bring back one that would snap when she used it on us or she'd send us out for another one and start all over. Ahh...the memories...
boy do we all remember mamabird telling us this, more than a few times! lol. i decided against spankings/whippings also. and looks like my boys are following suit. i think i had enough for all of us thru several generations when i was a kid!
a smack on the bottom with the hand does come every now and again for not listening to the first few verbal warnings
i was thinking more of those whose first reaction is a swift hand, for everything, & anything. sort of like a preemptive strike. it just shows their lack of parenting/teaching skills when their immediate response is inflicting pain, including when trying to teach a young exploring child what is off limits. i will clarify this later in another post.
The effect it had on you was,in times past,known as adverse or reverse psychology.It proves to me that the mold can be broken.This is why I do not believe the courts should be linient to criminals because of their upbringing.This should be no defense for wanton murder nor child molestation.
Thank you Byron.I quit the Democrats when they were responsible for the coddling of criminals and did nothing for the victims. I am back with the Democrats because I am sick of the Morons in Washington and especially the Crawford Texas Moron. The killers in America showed no mecy for their victims therefore,in my opinion,there is no such thing as a cruel inhuman execution. I have another version of the online Bible that displays various versions of the scriptures as they wer translated.If you would like to have it I will send it to you.
I quit everyone and started all over again. I am a rainbow of agreement/disagreement. I am the only one right and everyone else has a right to be wrong. i dislike all politicians and root for the underdog and hope he/she wins every time. I am anti anything that cost me what I didn't go to walmart for. And I don't care how intelligent/unintelligent the president is because the morons are ultimately the people(including me until recently) who think it makes any difference which one we vote for. My heros are Archie Bunker and Earl Pitts and Martin Luther King Jr and Fred Sanford.....
In Chinese society it is said:” The more you beat, the sweeter the meat". If a child has no respect for daddy, he will have no respect for society or law. Judicious punishment, with calm head and a bare hand works wonders with headstrong children. Without both, spanking is always counterproductive.
Children are a product of their parents, and learn to mimic the parents. If a child is "headstrong", that child is only following what they see. I do not condone punishment, if it is only because a child is acting out what they perceive in you.
But the home is what later becomes society to a child. Children need to learn there are consequencs. Wasn't it John Loke who suggested man gives up some freedoms to prserve more important ones? So what do you propose imposes these limits on a child without a concept consequences? It appears that violence due to the lack of self restraint has increased by several orders of magnatude in the last 30 years.
jacklydia wrote on Nov 7, '07, edited on Nov 14, '07
guyinsanfancisco, holds chinese philosophy!
i decided to hide this post because of my obvious insensitive response toward my own sensitivity on this topic. i feel strongly convicted when i do things of this nature, although often times conviction comes all too slowly for what damage can be done by the tongue. (an instrument man cannot tame) my apologies to all who have seen it beforehand and especially to the guyinsanfransico.
This gentleman has stated that he has friends, family in China. It would seem that he is struggling to adapt to many issues in different cultures and there are problems in all. I want to believe that he is only trying to educate us in another custom, so I'll try to briefly follow some of these statements.
"Judicious punishment, with calm head and a bare hand works wonders with headstrong children. Without both, spanking is always counterproductive".
And therein lies the problem with this philosophy, it is seldom done with either, but rather more as a spontaneous first strike. To quote; ” The more you beat, the sweeter the meat". is anything but a calm head and a bare hand. This is an oxymoron to the first statement. It seems that this is trying to teach humility with painful blows. While this may produce submission, it can never be called respect.
"It appears that violence due to the lack of self restraint has increased by several orders of magnitude in the last 30 years".
I would have to agree with that, it seems that the more we strike out at our children, the more they strike out at others.
"So what do you propose imposes these limits on a child without a concept consequences?"
Love. I assure you, if love cannot teach respect, nothing can. And it has no borders or boundaries. Love is selfless. Love is the greatest gift, without this, there is no child, no parent, no great grandparent that is safe from hatred, in all it's forms. I would implore you that if you truly subscribe to any of the ideas that you have pointed out are a part of Chinese philosophy, that you examine yourself, and your consciousness, ask yourself if you felt loved as a child, and have you passed that same feeling of security on to your children. If there is any doubt, then you do yourself and your children, and by default your grandchildren, a disservice. Sometimes it's never too late to change.
"So what do you propose imposes these limits on a child without a concept consequences?"
Love. I assure you, if love cannot teach respect, nothing can. And it has no borders or boundaries. Love is selfless. Love is the greatest gift, without this, there is no child, no parent, no great grandparent that is safe from hatred, in all it's forms. I would implore you that if you truly subscribe to any of the ideas that you have pointed out are a part of Chinese philosophy, that you examine yourself, and your consciousness, ask yourself if you felt loved as a child, and have you passed that same feeling of security on to your children. If there is any doubt, then you do yourself and your children, and by default your grandchildren, a disservice. Sometimes it's never too late to change.
Well spoken. I concur. Love truly is the greatest gift, without which we are none safe from hatred, .... in all it's forms.
I have just passed another milestone, my ninth year anniversary on my
present job. There was no fanfare, no bells, whistles, or confetti, not
even an acknowledgment of a goal seldom reached in the notoriously
revolving door of the hospitality business.
In my young and restless days, I would have strongly considered moving on
after five, so, how did this happen? Maturity, you say? Complacency?
Losing sight of a vision of always moving up and onward? I can tell you
now, those restless feelings are still there, but somehow, somewhere,
they are reshuffled to the back of the deck, to make room for the
different hand that has, more recently, been dealt. Impulse gives way
to reason, and desire yields to necessity.
If there is one bit of advice I have for the new generation, it is to make the most of the
spontaneity and vigor with which you envision life's challenges and
crossroads, for these are the moments that will define you as you
approach that "oh, so far off middle age".
Seldom is life so generous as to give you that second chance, which is in us all, to
start anew, and if by circumstance we do, we are not the same. There is
no fearless desire to run naked through the woods (although I've done
it a time or two at far, far, too old), there is no expediency to being
number one in the crowd. There is no longer "Me" and "Now". There is
however a different kind of boldness. I am not afraid of things that go
bump in the night. No longer do I fear hunger, or illness, or
unemployment, nor despair, because I have been visited by all these
things, and I have endured, and I know there will be tomorrow.
With our increasing age comes our greatest strength, and this is experience,
and the wisdom to pass it along to our children, and to theirs. In this
day and age there are many who may contemplate that there is no God,
or, there must be many Gods, but now, more than ever, I can fervently
say, and without a doubt, God bless my children, and keep them from
harms way, for where I lead them, they will follow.
-----byron c.
The
direst foe of courage is the fear itself, not the object of it, and the
man who can overcome his own terror is a hero and more.
- -- George MacDonald
"Go placidly amid the noise & haste & remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible without surrender, be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly & clearly; and listen to others, even the dull & ignorant; they too have their story. Avoid loud & aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit. If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain & bitter; for always there will be greater & lesser persons than yourself. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time. Exercise caution in your business affairs; for the world is full of trickery. But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals; and everywhere life is full of heroism. Be yourself. Especially do not fein affection. Neither be cynical about love; for in the face of all aridity & disenchantment it is perennial as the grass. Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth. Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue & loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a Child of the Universe, no less than the trees & the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the Universe is unfolding as it should. Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors & aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul. With all its sham, drudgery & broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy." -Max Ehrmann ["Desiderata"]
I remember her telling us to go pick out our own switch too...and not to bring back one that would snap when she used it on us or she'd send us out for another one and start all over. Ahh...the memories... 
